Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut.
Fishville’s Notes: The storm of Amy Chua's book is another example that the main media of the United States has been controlled by the Ivy League graduates. Amy Chua studies international economics and her essay was published by Wall Street Journal. Her Jewish husband and she got their degrees only from Harvard and Princeton and they all work for Yale Law School. I am wondering what if she is only a professor of Madison, Wisconsin or Berkeley or even Stanford, the impact of her article and book would not be near to this level. I am leaning to believe that the allegation is probably also true that HYP's graduates have a great influence on the actual results of annual college ranking released by US News and World Report.
NPR Amy Chua and her husband interview transcript
January 14, 2011
Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, by Amy Chua, discusses Chua's extreme parenting techniques. The book has become fodder for debate among parents across America. NPR's Michele Norris talks to Chua about the book, and to Chua's husband, Jed Rubenfeld. The two are professors of law at Yale Law School, and Rubenfeld has a forthcoming book of his own, The Death Instinct.
ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Robert Siegel.
MICHELE NORRIS, host:
And I'm Michele Norris.
This week, a new book seems to have taken America by storm. It's as if you could hear people gasping in every corner of the country. Did she really write that? Did she really say that? Ouch. I'm talking about the book "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother." An excerpt appeared last weekend in The Wall Street Journal under the headline "Why Chinese Mothers are Superior."
Well, all week, I've been talking about this book with friends, family, co-workers, and now I have a chance to talk with the Chinese mother who wrote it. Amy Chua joins us now from New Haven.
Welcome to the program.
Ms. AMY CHUA (Author, "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother"): Thanks so much for having me, Michele.
NORRIS: Can you, in a few words, tell us what you were hoping to communicate with this book? What's the core message?
Ms. CHUA: Well, I was raised myself by extremely strict but also extremely loving Chinese immigrant parents. To this day, I believe that they're having high expectations for me coupled with love. It was the greatest gift that anyone's ever given me. And so that's why, even though my husband is not Chinese, I try to raise my own two daughters the same way.
And so the book is about many of the strengths that I see and that kind of tough immigrant parenting, but also about my mistakes. It's about making fun of myself - a lot of people miss this - and ultimately, about my decision to sort of pull back when really confronted in a moment of crisis.
So the book is absolutely not a how-to book. I do not think the Chinese way is superior. It's a memoir. It's really sort of a story of my own journey and transformation as a mother, and it does explore these issues. You know, what's the right balance?
NORRIS: It's a journey that you're on, and you really do need to read the entire book and not just the excerpt because you do land in a very different place at the end of the book. But in the beginning of the book, you spell out some of the things that a Chinese mother believes. And if you don't mind, I was going to tick through a few of them because I do have...
Ms. CHUA: Okay.
NORRIS: ...the book right here with me.
Schoolwork always comes first. An A-minus is a bad grade. Your children must be two years ahead of their classmates in math. You must never compliment your children in public. If your child ever disagrees with a teacher or coach, you must always take the side of the teacher or coach. The only activities your children should be permitted to do are those in which they can eventually win a medal, and that medal must be gold.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. CHUA: Michele...
NORRIS: ...the touch points for your life when you were growing up?
Ms. CHUA: You know, I hope people see, Michele, that that is a little tongue in cheek. I mean, come on. I - the one thing I can say is I know that my kids grew up knowing that they were deeply, deeply loved. And it was hard, it was hard, you know? And I'm actually really proud of the relationship that we have.
NORRIS: I so appreciated your honesty in this book because parenting is something that, you know, despite all the manuals and all the discussions about it in public forums, is something that happens behind closed doors. And you are incredibly candid. You really lay bare, you know, what these experiences were like for you. And you write about how you handled your daughter Lulu when she was 3. What happened on that day?
Ms. CHUA: This was amazing. I thought, oh, great, you know, it's just Lulu and me together. She's about 3. I can teach her to play the piano. And I sat her down on these comfortable pillows, and I said, look, Lulu, just play one note three times evenly.
And Lulu and I are so similar in personality. She's a fireball. She decided that, instead, she would smash at the piano with both open palms. And so, we had a little back and forth that she just wouldn't do it and then she was kicking and screaming and thrashing. And finally, I said, you know what? I am determined to raise an obedient "Chinese" child. I took her, you know, to the front door and I said - it was a very cold day - and I said, now, if you don't stop screaming and if you don't behave, I am going to put you outside in the cold.
She looked at me and she's 3 years old and she steps outside into the cold. And I start to panic, you know? The whole book is full of Lulu calling my bluff. I didn't think she would go out there. So I quickly said, okay, you're quiet now, come back in here. And she just shook her head and she wouldn't come in. I had to bribe her back in with hot chocolate and brownies, but I - that's how I set up the book.
NORRIS: Now, you said that you were raised by Chinese immigrants. You married a man who came from a quite different background. Your husband, Jed Rubenfeld, is actually with you now in the studio. You two cut this deal in your marriage that the kids would be raised Jewish. Jed, that's your faith. And as parents, you would adopt this Chinese style of parenting.
Jed, did you know what you were getting into when you struck this arrangement?
Mr. JED RUBENFELD: You know, to me, maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought the way we were raising our kids was more of a traditional American way. You know, the values of hard work and perseverance and being taught that you can overcome obstacles and respect.
And, you know, it's an interesting thing. When did Western parenting become associated with the more permissive style? I think it's pretty recent. I mean, I think maybe the 1960s. So I didn't really think of it as Western versus Chinese. I guess I thought of it as maybe a kind of old-fashioned parenting style.
It's not the parenting style in which I was raised. My family really did have the more permissive emphasis on individuality, creativity, freedom. And those are great values. And we tried to give our kids those values too. But it's really true that my parents and a lot of parents are thinking that generation didn't, you know, put expectations on kids, and I'm one of those people who sort of wishes that their parents had made them learn an instrument or something like that.
NORRIS: Did you ever clash over this at all? Were there ever any concerns? And, Jed, when I ask you this question, I'm thinking about a moment in the book where you noticed these marks on the piano and you realized that your very driven daughter was actually gnawing on the piano when her parents weren't looking.
Mr. RUBENFELD: Well, you know, we did clash a little bit, but never in front of the kids. It was very important to me and to Amy that we presented a united front to the children. So, sometimes I would say to Amy privately that I thought this or that, you know, could be reconsidered.
But those marks, whatever they indicated, and I - assuming they indicated frustration and, you know, something was hard to do. And things are hard to do for children, and kids will typically give up if the parents don't push them. What kid wants to practice a musical instrument so much that they really get good at it, you know? If the parent doesn't make them, it's probably not going to happen.
NORRIS: Amy writes that the measure of Chinese parenting is how the children in the end wind up viewing their own mother and father. And you use your own father as a cautionary tale in that sense. He was very resentful of his own parents and, in fact, he was estranged from them because of their outsized expectations. This is a tough question to ask, but I'm wondering what your daughters think of you.
Ms. CHUA: I knock on wood, Michele. My girls confide in me. We're good friends. I wasn't such good friends with my parents when I was little. I was terrified of them. So that's a real difference.
I mean, I guess I'm proud of the parent that I've been. I know I'm being judged very harshly by people out there. You know, that does hurt. But in the end, it's just how my daughters feel and think about me that matters. They are outgoing, strong-willed girls with lots of friends. And, you know, I think my odds are good, but I don't know. It's a work in progress. I can only hope, you know? We can only try to do our best.
NORRIS: Amy and Jed, thank you so much for being with us. This has been wonderful.
Ms. CHUA: Thanks so much for having us.
Mr. RUBENFELD: Thank you, Michele.
NORRIS: That's Amy Chua and her husband, Jed Rubenfeld. Amy's new book is "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother."
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